Zaid vs Khairy on Al Jazeera

YOUR WORD AGAINST THE REST ISA (malaysia Today Aug 6, 09 9:15pm)

Releasing ISA detainees after becoming prime minister does not mean a thing when the law can be used to detain more people after that, said former law minister Zaid Ibrahim.

"Yes, Prime Minister Najib Abdul Razak released 13. Dr Mahathir Mohammad released 12 after becoming Prime Minister in 1981.

"But he went on to arrest another 100 in 1987," said Zaid on Al Jazeera's 101 East current affairs programme which was aired at 8.30pm tonight.

"So long as you have a minister who can detain anyone without having the right to question him, it is not acceptable."

Zaid was responding to fellow panellist, Umno Youth chief Khairy Jamaluddin who said Najib signalled his intention to review the act when he released ISA detainees after being sworn in as Prime Minister.

The remaining panellist was Suhakam commissioner Dr Denison Jayasooria.

Zaid said that there were other preventive laws in the country and so long as the government is not prepared to repeal the ISA, there will be no real democracy in the country.

"The future of politics in the country is this; do we want to enjoy basic rights that people all over the world are enjoying without sacrificing the security of the country?

"We accept preventive laws but they must be specific, limited in time and subject to judicial review," he added.

Zaid said the concern of the people is whether they can trust the government to keep to its promise of a review of the ISA.

"Suhakam had called for a review since 2003. And all the government has been saying is we will review, we will review but nothing has been done.

Najib's bizarre statement

"Unlike Khairy, I have heard bizarre statements from ministers and even the PM who said, ‘Why don't we build a stadium for you guys and you can go and scream there.'

"His statement reflects one thing very clearly. He does not understand what freedom is. He does not understand what personal liberty is.

"Because if you cannot understand what the constitution provides, you can never address this issue," he said.

"Can't you just give the permit and say just march for two hours from point A to point B, just like other civilised countries do?

"We did not go there with tear gas, we did not go there with attack dogs, we went there with ordinary people with children.

"We were exercising our right to assemble under the constitution. The inconvenience was caused by the authorities. It was not by us. Why can't you allow that two hours of space?" asked Zaid.

Khairy said the anti-ISA demonstration on Aug 1, has hastened the debate on bringing changes to the law.

While he agreed with the government's stand to review the law, he said Malaysia needed preventive detention laws to take proactive measures to maintain peace.

He said with threats from terrorists and extremists, coupled with a uniquely multi-racial society, the government could ill-afford a tragedy.

"In this context, I believe the people will understand the importance of giving the government this power," he said.

However, Khairy added that the national security agenda ought to be balanced with the demands of democracy, in this case human rights, civil liberties and justice.

"Therefore, the ISA or any other preventive law should not be used to stop legitimate dissent or used as an easy way out of a political impasse.

"The term national security shouldn't be abused for anyone's political interest. The scope and definition of a national security threat must be tightened to avoid abuse."

In an effort to strengthen the system of democracy in the country, the BN, said Khairy, was not deaf to the views of youths who are not comfortable with the ISA.

"Here, I do not agree that we label this group as being blind to history or appearing to show that the Malays are opposing the ISA.

"In fact, we need to listen and understand their views in line with the reforms being carried out by the party and the Prime Minister."

Near absolute power of ISA unsettling

He said he concurred with the prime minister who had given clear indications that the ISA need not be retained as it is.

"Whether the ISA will be amended or replaced will have to be a political decision. It's possible that it is a political burden and needs to shift from its extremist legacy.

"Therefore, it is not surprising that people are uncomfortable with the near absolute powers given to the home minister to detain a suspect without trial indefinitely.

"Any individual arrested under preventive laws must be given the liberty to appeal to a court of law against his detention. As most cases involve evidences that are deemed sensitive, it may be better a special court is set up to hear these cases in camera."

"I also feel there is a need to give ISA detainees access to their lawyers and family members, which they are deprived of currently. These issues must be discussed for the benefit of all."

He said the anti-ISA demonstration on Aug 1 did not bring any direct benefit to anyone as the protesters only asked for the abolishment of the ISA without offering any realistic suggestions as Malaysia still needed a preventive law.

Denison said there is a general public opinion that there were excesses on the use of the ISA and there was a need to limit the powers in areas of threat to national security.

On Najib's proposal to use stadiums to stage protests, he said that even a simple thing like the candlelight vigils and dinners have been restricted and speeches were prohibited.

"The police have not followed some of the guidelines' and suggestion given by the Human Rights Commission to allow space for legitimate dissent as enshrined under the federal constitution," he said.